Author Topic: Engine for Pilgrim Hawthorn  (Read 6264 times)

andywingham

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Engine for Pilgrim Hawthorn
« on: July 29, 2010, 06:30:37 PM »
Hi ,
I have had a 1800 marina engine, in there when I brought the car and lasted a year. and a new MGB engine in my Hawthorn. The MGB engine lasted 70000 miles,  before she blew the head gasket. I was just wondering what other engines fit the Hawthorn, there was one on e bay last week with a ford V6. Are there any others and do you need new engine mountings, Id love to get her back on the road after 2 years in the drive. Hope someone can help
Andy Wingham :)

istreatf

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Re: Engine for Pilgrim Hawthorn
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2010, 07:39:30 PM »
Hi Andy - without any modification the Bulldog/Hawthorn chassis will accept either the "A" or "B" series engines only. If you want to start welding and cutting then you can fit anything, given that you will need to work the steering around the engine etc. I have seen a Dolomite engine in a Hawthorn and a Vetec in a Bulldog, a Rover V8 in a Mk2 Bulldog, and I know of one Bulldog owner who gave up trying to put a Triimph 2 litre straight 6 engine in. The Ford option would probably work somehow I expect, but do not think it will just go straight in! You will have to use a Ford gearbox, new engine and gearbox mountings (welded into the chassis) with the likelyhood of having to move or modify other components around as well - exhaust, servo, steering, starter, transmission tunnel clearance, gearlever position, clutch hydraulics, all being possibles. There are several Morris Minor specialists who fit the "K" series in to Moggies, so that might be a tried and tested option. It is not cheap though. The old Fiat 2 litre twin cam was also a favourite with Morris Minors as well.
The cheapest way is to stick to the "B" series. Is there anything else wrong with the MGB engine apart from a blown head gasket? Sounds like a head/block skim might be all that is needed? There may be lots more miles in that engine yet! By the way, the guy who put the Vetec engine in his Bulldog has spent many thousands of your earth pounds on the conversion, and lets be honest, how many miles are you planning on doing in the car?
Ian Streatfield, SE London and N Kent Area Rep.
Lunchtime meetings on 2nd Tuesday of the month at the Crown, Shoreham High Street, Kent from 12:30 onwards.

simon3000

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Re: Engine for Pilgrim Hawthorn
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2010, 10:16:14 PM »
i agree with ian.stick with the "b"series,spares are readily avaliable ,its easy to work on and the car is already set up for it.swapping to a different engine is a whole heap of aggravation.
 we are currently changing from an "o"series(no spares avaliable)to a pinto.changes so far:-remove existing engine mounts,make and weld in new ones.remove marina pedal box,fabricate mounting plate for sierra pedals and servo(for cable clutch).fabricate and mount new gearbox crossmember.move handbrake as it fouls the gearbox.
still to do is the plumbing,electrics,re pipe the brake lines and order a new propshaft.
  as you can see an engine rebuild is probably a lot easier and cheaper. 
  all the best with whatever you decide to do,the hawthorn is quite a rare beast and deserves to be put back on the road.

andywingham

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Re: Engine for Pilgrim Hawthorn
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2010, 05:00:41 PM »
Thanks for the input, I thought probably easier to stick to the B series. I have had the engine checked and they advised another engine as the head gasket blew bad and did lots of damage to the block. I did put another MGB engine in and changed all the bits to fit the marina box etc, but cannot get the clutch to work. It does not operate enough to go into gear when the engine is running. I have bled it, put a new master cylinder in and bled it again. When I get back from hols I will try again. If not will keep eyes open for a marina engine and gearbox. I miss driving her, more fun than the Landy.
Andy Wingham

istreatf

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Re: Engine for Pilgrim Hawthorn
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2010, 10:22:28 PM »
Sounds like the clutch plates might be rusted together. I had that with my Hawthorn and it is not uncommon for cars that have been laid up a few years. There are a couple of simple solutions that may or may not work, but usually do. Firstly, chock up all the wheels, handbrake on, in top gear, feet hard on both brake and clutch pedals and turn the starter. If that does not work, you will need to have the engine working and warmed up, start up the car with the engine in first gear, get to about 5 mph then stamp on the brakes and clutch. You might even find that rocking the car in gear with the clutch hard down does the trick, especiallly if the engine is a bit stiff. The first one worked with my Hawthorn - but what I did first was to let the engine run with the rear wheels off the ground and in gear for a while - try that first and then stamp on the brakes and clutch while the rear wheels are off the ground. There is another way but it is too dangerous for my liking and no more certain to sort it out. Keep safe and use axle stands, not jacks or bricks, with some big hefty lumps of wood cut into wedges for the chocks - and keep the car's possible projectory clear!
Ian Streatfield, SE London and N Kent Area Rep.
Lunchtime meetings on 2nd Tuesday of the month at the Crown, Shoreham High Street, Kent from 12:30 onwards.

Mahin

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Re: Engine for Pilgrim Hawthorn
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2010, 01:01:51 AM »
Sound unlikely to be the clutch plates because the engine just went in.
I always went on the basis that if you have the engine out, put in a new clutch plate just on general principals. But in any event I would assume the clutch was at least inspected before being assembled.
There has been a bit of switching round of components to match the replacement B to the original marina box...?

Sounds like the component mix didn't go completely right.

I had the opposite problem with a MK1 Mexico many moons ago when I went from a competition clutch to a standard clutch. Made the mistake of keeping the original clutch release bearing and hub. Just as the clutch bedded in it would slip. The release bearing hub didn't have enough clearance for the clutch assembly.
In the end I had the clutch release bearing hub out and had it machined back a bit. That sorted it.

In this case if you can't get it to disengage it would seem you are not getting enough forward motion of the release bearing into the clutch plate. This could be because the flywheel dimensions are different and the face is sitting closer to the block within the bell housing. Could it be there is a difference between the old engine and new?
I'm trying to think how you can test this without stripping it all out again... get an endoscope in through the bell housing where the clutch lever enters?
Listen carefully to see if you can hear the hub bearing spin when in contact with the clutch springs? Dunno.
If so, what is the cure? comparing measurements and motions to identify the cause. It might be you need a beefier clutch release bearing and hub.

simon3000

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Re: Engine for Pilgrim Hawthorn
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 08:03:18 AM »
just a quick thought.since the marina uses a hydraulic clutch,is the slave cylinder working properly,leaking or not bled properly.if thats not the problem then you may be able to make a longer push rod (between the cylinder and clutch release arm)